visualuk wrote: On that note, I ask you to remove your unkind comments from this site. How easy is it for me and anyone else to leave nasty comments on your online profiles? Or start forums about your behaviour and upload tons of insult? But surely the vision of this VJ community is not to launch a campaign of unfair personal insults?

visualuk wrote: George, Lets see if I get this right: We welcomed you to our bar on an open deck night, invited you to our Sat party, offered you to stay as long as you wished, made it clear that there was no budget for a VJ and asked you at least 3 times if you were happy to stay, and you confirmed “yes”. I even treated you to a free drink.

In return you write pages of accusations, twisted facts, unkind comments and insults, and you are actually upset why I didn’t fill your pocket with cash, and why I didn’t disclose my company’s financial information and how much I pay my staff so you could publish it on the internet?!? We didn’t run a job fair, you attended an “Open Deck” night!!! Even on Sat you made several substantial errors with your visuals, but we tolerated it because we didn’t want to discourage Liz playing her first gig.

The vision behind our bar is not about making you rich my friend. I love playing electro tunes, and my partner loves doing visuals. We set the place up so we can share that experience with others. The reason we started the open deck nights on Wednesdays, was to give other artists also a chance to come and play on a decent system. By the sound of it, that vision already worked for your friend Liz as she played to a crowd on Saturday for the first time! We didn’t cancel a mystery artist, my partner was supposed to VJ that night, but she agreed to step down and give you guys a chance. Seems the kindness has backfired!

The alleged £50 offer was initiated by yourself, when you asked me: “if we return the next time and do a night here, will you pay us £50?”! Otherwise we don’t really need to hire DJs and VJs as we are a small venue without a door charge, and my partner and I can do our own music and visuals.

In how many venues can you enter with your laptop and have free access to play with the equipment like we do on our open deck nights?

In how many venues can you actually talk to the owner? And now I can see why other owners don’t talk to artists perhaps because they don’t want to deal with hassles like this. If you recall, I held several conversations with you on Sat, and I even stepped out of the bar in the middle of our closing procedure at 3.30 am to speak to you. If I hadn’t shown that courtesy to you, then you could not have twisted my words and posted any of these nonsense.

So what should I do? Assume that your behaviour is representative of the whole VJ community? Cancel the open deck nights and close my doors to all VJs? I don’t think so. My partner is a VJ also and she doesn’t have the same behaviour. Although our venue is small, running it is not cheap, neither is the cost of running the equipment. However, I am still happy to share the equipment with other artists who can’t get deck time anywhere else (as I remember my own struggle when I started DJing).

On that note, I ask you to remove your unkind comments from this site. How easy is it for me and anyone else to leave nasty comments on your online profiles? Or start forums about your behaviour and upload tons of insult? But surely the vision of this VJ community is not to launch a campaign of unfair personal insults?

If you want to criticize me in the future, sit down with me and say it to my face. If you can convince me, maybe I can improve something. And who knows maybe you learn something in the process too. Direct and honest communication is the key to a more positive life. I leave you with Gandhi's famous quote: "You cannot shake hands with a clenched fist."

Rovastar wrote:

subpixel wrote: If you don't want to heed the warning, that is your option.

I have no intention of taking him up on the 'offer'. I was just a little confused as I heard that this was a shit place to VJ as the owner was an arse and wanted to find out more of the reason why on these forums.

It sounds like a lot of this could have been avoided if there was some communication beforehand. Were you VJing early(9-12) or late(12-3)?

Lets presume early? Simply stating that cannot play past 12 beforehand e.g. you might have another gig lined up for later and you have to leave at 12 I do not consider unprofessional.

I know it is common for VJs to be press ganged into to doing more, cheaper, etc sometimes it is better to just say no.

Now about the pay, did you really think it would be a lot? I think I know the size of the venue from the descriptions here and I think walked past it on Saturday lunchtime (not knowing anything about this being a venue for VJs).

I don't know if there was much of/any door entry. But they cannot be making much.

I would immediate look at size of the venue and know they cannot afford me. You may get a token payment like was offered eventually but for a long term engagement it is not likely to be a moneyspinner. I am surprised anyone would think it is. Seriously what did you expect as payment in a small bar? Please let me know I am curious.

Those that know me know I am firm supporter of VJs being paid properly but it has to logical to the venue. A more realistic is the amount of people you are playing to as the venue/night will get more takings, obviously overheads are higher but they can afford more. I always like to see some sort of formula like a small percentage of the potential door take as a basis of a fee. I think this is more realistic. And that doesn't add up for small bars as a small percentage take on a tiny amount is not very much.

Anyway the owner sounded like an idiot and the only thing I did like is the fact that he noticed your mistake/glitches it at least shows something of an interest in visuals. Most owners/promoters wouldn't give a shit.

neon wrote:
...so let he use dvd instead, if he know exactly what he want and what's offensive and what's not. I don't play offensive content at all, but I don't like censorship, especially when I'm suppose to do somebody a favour. According to Subpixel description this club looks like a typical commercial venue, so: bring your gear, play your visuals, but only eyecandies to make our fancy-fashion-dressed-clients happy, have your two drinks and get lost, next one from gumtree please... however I haven't been there - I'm not convinced so far.

One thing I think that lets VJs down in general is the lack of censorship. I have been to venues where promoters have had legitimate concerns about what I will play as the last 'VJ' started putting up porn in the shows and he had complaints and therefore he didn't want to employ any VJs.

As a punter I don't want to see offensive content.

Personally I have been offended at visuals of people being killed, disasters, terrorist acts, etc being played.

I don't like it when VJs see any screen time as they own party political broadcast.

I am sure many gigs have been lost long term because promoters do not want VJs now as a VJ in the past played offensive/controversial content.

You are there to work with the venue paid or not.
To be professional about it if your content does contain potential offensive material e.g. nudity, violence, etc explain this beforehand to the promoter. Show them sample clips, etc.

This way there is no confusion.